I'll be damned! There's a name for what I do!

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... and the stupid browser posted early, so here's the rest:

Overwhelmingly astral in nature, check. Severe lack of physical rituals, check. Raw, propless, impromptu magic, check. (And it seems strange to hear that it could work any other way! But I suspect that it has to do with the nature of AEM -- when so much of your work is astral, you get used to not needing rituals as a matter of course. It is an easier medium for willwork.)

In my direct experience, group work has been very loosely coordinated -- at best working like a squadron, where each member has hir designated role to play in a coordinated team effort, but more typically just a bunch of individuals throwing themselves at the issue in unison.

I'll have to not-quite-agree with your "taught by spirits". My teacher, who I met at random (;-)) in college, was taught by someone else incarnate, IIRC. (I'm not sure she was strictly AEM, but that's certainly what I learned.) I later went on to tutor a few folks in what became an online circle -- so that's at least three generations, probably four, away from a spirit teacher.

Frequent contact with spirits, check (my non-incarnate soulmate plus three two others as permanent residents here -- not to mention house hangers-on and roommates' acquaintances; and that's not even counting the ones I visit). In my 20s, check (26.5, though my teacher is edging 30).

A name for the tradition? I wasn't aware there was one! I've always just called myself an "eclectic pagan," but in the broader sense of eclectic, not as a signifier of any specific subset of pagan belief. As for its origins ... well, AEM has two big appeals: (1) a deep focus on fundamentals and pragmatism, and (2) no inherent social structure whatsoever. I'm sure it's been around for as long as there's been people exploring magic, but I think any surge in its popularity is due to the rise of Internet culture, where people are more likely to find #1 attractive and where #2 means low barriers to entry. (Of course, I got my grounding in the tradition fully offline, but I'm a weirdo anyway. ]B=8))

It strikes me that, yes, it's a tradition that meshes very well with stereotypical American culture -- that sort of rugged, individualistic libertarianism demands a form of willworking that doesn't rely on rigid structure and favors exploration over community. Excellent naming.

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Would you or your group ever be willing to do a presentation, lecture, whatever on this at Pantheacon?

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*googles Pantheacon* Very cool, I'd never heard of this event before. I don't currently have a group, but I or I and my partner (I'll have to ask) would be happy to give a presentation about this. The only limit being the fact that given my rather pathetic income I may not be able to afford transport or hotel costs. I'll look into this and get back to you. Email me about this.

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I was asking the nice dragonthingy since I believe he is local? And, having met him in person, I know he could do a good presentation.
However, you are both welcome to present. As part of its maturing process, and I am sure in an attempt to address the concerns about having 4 days of same old and beginner classes with little advanced or original stuff (which is not my impression at all, but I AM new) - Pantheacon is moving to an approval process on presentation. Frankly, I think you guys' idea is substantial and unrepresented enough it is a shoe in. However, the approval process takes time and the window is closed for 2004. (I think).
So 2005?

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I just wanted to respond to this both late and completely out of the blue (surfed back through my memories posts to find the AEM thing as a reference for a journal entry).

I'm not currently a Pcon attendee, but keep pressing me on it. One of these years I'll work up the nerve to go (knowing very few people who attend and being in such an eclectic tradition combine to create a sort of barrier to entry). I'm not entirely sure about 2005 due to the difficulty of scheduling vacations at my current job, but the longer-term future is much more up in the air.

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So, how about 2006?

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I managed to make it to '05 for the span of an evening. This year, kadyg and I are going to be knee-deep in preparation for a few other things -- most notably, I'll be training for my summer plans; and we'll both be a week out from our wedding reception and starting to panic. ;) Prognosis doesn't look good.

2007 should be a good year to take the whole thing in and I shall endeavour to keep my schedule clear.

I will, however, be attending Furcon later this month. And not working it, even!

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Also, I appreciate your compliment on my competence, but I'd be *very* self-conscious talking about something as personal as my magical work to a group of (essentially) strangers. I'm working on getting over this.

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IME, the term "eclectic pagan" typically means something very different. Those people are the ones who go to public rituals and blend bits of Wicca and other formal trads into their practice. Also, they are far more likely to be involved in the larger pagan community. Very few practitioners of AEM are members of the (dis)organized pagan community, they tend to form small separate and extremely isolated groups. Except on-line and through personal connections, I don't know of any way to meet other practitioners. In contrast, most "eclectic pagans" tend to actively study more than one organized tradition and so are relatively easy to find. AEM is very clearly a variety of shamanism, which is ultimately something fairly different from most other pagan practice. In retrospect, I could just as easily call it "modern shamanism".

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I guess I'm in the group, too, since I learned from you. ;)

It is very individualistic -- so it can be difficult to pigeonhole. Me, I added on a bit of Xoas spin, among other things, and I don't get out talking to spitits very much, but ... *shrugs*

I think one commanility is that those who fit into this group tend to not only eschew rituals, but see them as some kind of crutch. That's not a -bad- thing; rituals can be used when one really needs to focus and build power, but for little things, rituals seem irrelevant and inconvenient when one can merely focus one's will.

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Oh, crap, I had -no- idea how old this post was, and Bax linked to it, so....

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I know a couple of Canadians who might argue with you. =P

I will note that I consider myself to have learned as much from fiction as I did from spirits. I got some basics from Ares, but seeing things as a web? And more specfically, the way I see and act on energy around me? Nina Kiriki Hoffman and Patricia C. Wrede, completely.

The definition of a primarily willworked, nonritualized magic is somewhat similar to the direct magic philosophy I've seen on the Library of Knowledge.

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Very true. One of the things I share with this trad is borrowing ideas from various fantasy novels. Mostly, I borrowed from Andre Norton. I think that this is an equally important source as spirit-teaching.

You've mentioned the Library of Knowledge before. Who's behind this? It does seem like an interesting intermediate between the informal shamanism of AEM and more standard types of magical practice.

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The fellow who runs it is known as Tomekeeper. If you want to get a feel for him, your best bet is to either pop into IRC or hang around the message board. The board is a bit high on the moron ratio, but not too bad as occult discussion groups go.

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*grins* While I had never really thought of a formal title for this brand of magic, I have over the years generally thought of it as "urban willworking" and things similar.

A reason for it, and yet another data point for you, is that something I've noticed is a strong "underground" flavor to it. As Baxil observed, one of its attractive points is a low entry barrier, which is part of what allows it to spread over the Internet so easily. But combined with that and the Internet, urban magic or AEM essentially promotes classical underground social subversion dynamics. I have noticed it is very popular among late teens and early 20s for people that have to deal with environments which would severely frown (or worse) on non-mainstream spiritual practices or on any spirituality at all. But with something like this, they can learn and practice magic effectively in secret while keeping up that "normal" appearance.

This has lead to, among other things, the not-uncommon subersive situation of a teenager with visciously fundimentalist parents and family, paying lip service to the dogma being forced on them while at the same time practicing spiritual activities and participating in a spiritual community which would probably burn the corneas off of said parents' eyes were they to be aware of it. And yes, I'll happily admit to a good deal of satisfaction at the thought of this.

In a related observation, something I personally believe is that this kind of eclectic (in comparison to many other magical traditions) magic is something which is, as time goes by, discovered in a widespread (as opposed to isolated, sole individual) fashion as civilizations develop.

In part, it's the pragmatism and cultural agnosticism of it: as people become more and more aware of the world and its workings, as they become more technological and start to explore things like social forces and psychology in a more scientific sense, the relativism of various world-views becomes more apparent. It may actually be that the phase we're seeing parts of this world go through right now (the west in particular) where there is much gnashing of teeth and fantatically embrace of "traditional", top-heavy religious dogma vs Randian rejection of metaphysics and anything not of the emperical world, is a common one.

However, as people become aclimated to the idea of metaphysics which are not hide-bound to various complex dogmatic systems which want to force a person to swallow an entire cosmology just to get at some bits that may appeal to them, they start to become a lot more open to it. This at least, has been my experience with what I know of other worlds.

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But combined with that and the Internet, urban magic or AEM essentially promotes classical underground social subversion dynamics. I have noticed it is very popular among late teens and early 20s for people that have to deal with environments which would severely frown (or worse) on non-mainstream spiritual practices or on any spirituality at all.

True, but many practitioners continue with this tradition continue with it long after they have left home and some practitioners I know had impressively accepting home lives. I'm especially fascinated by the way it spreads. Many of the people I've known were doing it long before they ever encountered the internet. Also, the degree to which these people are not a part of the larger pagan community is quite interesting. I think AEM is an example of how shamanism really is the most basic form of magic and that it is both separate from other traditions and can spontaneously re-evolve in almost any environment.

However, as people become aclimated to the idea of metaphysics which are not hide-bound to various complex dogmatic systems which want to force a person to swallow an entire cosmology just to get at some bits that may appeal to them, they start to become a lot more open to it. This at least, has been my experience with what I know of other worlds.

I suspect you are correct and very much hope you are.

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I'd include myself in your group, though I don't spend a lot of time trying to directly influence externals. To me the connecting web of everything is something to be experienced and observed and the only manipulation I do is in how it affects my internal state or growth (which in turn affects externals indirectly through trickle-down). The vast majority of my work is a conglomeration of internal/astral/trance and requires no tools or preparation and in fact renders them useless; it's largely void of articulation or strict classification that would allow it to be grasped and firmly reshaped. It's a living system, very liquid, always in flux.

I have struggled for a name for this as well. I just call it 'processing' and refer to it as "the Process," which is very vague, but descriptive enough if you've done this sort of work. I recently added the more easily grokked label of "internal alchemical or energy work."

I am curious as to how this is used externally beyond the application of will to bring things into fruition by changing one's own ability to perceive, both present state and potential state. I can do small things that are external, but I find that my physical circumstances are not nearly as relevant to me as how I'm living in them.

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I'd have to say that I don't fall into this group, at least not willingly.

Let's see. In my 20's? Nope, I'm 33. Getting a lot of magical ideas from fantasy novels? Yep -- some of the ones you mention; Tolkien's ideas about magic, at least as presented in Hobbit and Lord of the Rings; morphogenic fields, check; Katherine Kurtz's Deryni series, which had the advantage (in my book, at least at the time) of being at least nominally Christian; bits and pieces of Taoism and Buddhism, yep; a sense of a web of energy, yep; learning from multiple personalities -- yes, but only recently; presence of spirits -- yep, but again, only recently.

I'd like you to speak in some journal post, or in a reply, about the difference between props and tools. I tend to think of props as being basically window dressing, party favors, useless fripperies. I distinguish props like a disk, a chalice, a sword, and a wand from tools, which are objects that have practical uses. I think of my magical tools as including whatever plastic jug I'm using to serve water to people at fire circles at pagan festivals; a pen to write sonnets and other poetry; a staff that my apprentice gave me (no actual useful purpose, but people seem to notice 1) that I didn't choose it, and 2) that it's very much mine.

On the other hand, some vagueries come in when I start looking at other 'tools/props'. What about the foil I teach fencing with; how do I constrast it with the claymore I use in history classes to help tell certain stories? What about the notebooks I write poetry in, particularly rhymed or alliterative poetry, the fancy ones with the leather covers and the ribbons? What about the poetry itself, some of which has ritual uses. What about my household altar? Perhaps some of these things are props, while some are tools. I'd be interested to hear your take on the difference.

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I've known several people your age and older who do this sort of magick. It's simply that most of them that I know are in their mid to late 20s.

Wrt props vs tools. I think this is a highly individual matter. Some people need lots and can work very effectively, others need almost nothing. I look at words and physical acts (like drawing pentacles in the air) in much the same way as I look at athemes and wands. All are tools to help people focus their magick, and most of them can be dispensed with. However, doing so can limit what one can so. I am quite good at energy work that requires no tools other than concentration and moving my hands around a bit. However, I need more formal ritual and more props to do certain types of magick.

Also, magick is emotionally powered and one thing I have noticed is that I enjoy the feel of using my athame instead of my finger with drwing circles or pentacles. This enjoyment clealy helps my magic but is not necessary. YMMV.

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Hey there. I'm not sure if we have met in person or not, but I found you on my friends' friends list. Great post and discussion. I added you to my friends list.

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What is this, "American Eclectic" Magik? Is it some strange variation of what the rest of the world is practicing? The word ecletic is relatively new to me,a term I only heard of very recently,one used by another to describe none other than myself. Well, to me, thats fine, call it what you will.

I`ve looked into various different titles, groups, cults,all sorts of practitioners of the art and I have my own opinions, as we all do, on what magik is and how it works.I`ve wondered for years about all this hocus pocus and have often wondered how to name what it is that I do.

Even after years searching, I still havent found a definiton im happy with, but after talking to a wican on this matter the term eclectic was offered to me.Alot of what was explained to me about this term seemed to make sense.

Magic or Magik,how ever you want to call it( to me,its nothing more than manipulating ourselves and the space around us)is something we can all do in the same manner.

I always smile when someone says something like,"an ability that I greatly envy"- to me all that says is that they have fallen into what I find to be a familiar trap. One where perhaps the person has read books and talked to people, but then followed too much of the advice and techniques placed in front of them.Instead of following their hearts and more importantly their instincts.

I would expect because of my way of thinking that their would be many to call me a novice and thats fine.I would still like to offer up a little clarity for those that find this little tidbit so mystifying.

It is my belief that those practitioners of the arts that look into many different areas, to gain what they want to learn and use, are not on some aimless roam, they are infact going in the right direction.To me it seems that there is but one form of Magik and many differing ways of performing this one art.I think that at some point in time we all lost our way and out of all that there has come alot of varying ideas on how things need to be done.

This is the part I find amusing. I absolutely believe there is no need for any form of props, tools, potions, drawings on the ground or anything else not directly apart of ones self.And I think the only real difference between an eclectic and anyone else is there understanding of this.

I honestly believe that to an eclectic, all that`s required for succesful magic is a solid belief in ones own abilities.Do those of you out there that use any form of props and tools, serously believe that without those you cannot achieve the exact same results? Now I cant speak for all those lumped with the title "eclectic" but if thats what I am then a few things are beginning to make sense.And therefore I feel I can speak out.

Here is why I think the way I do.
I think that even though the advice we recieve and the books we read, work.
continued next post....Djjin

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Sadly what you are doing is limiting yourself, if you dont follow your own instincts,then what you take from that kind of practice is like a placebo, if your told it will work, then it will, if your told,"this is the only way you can do this" then thats what you will live with,and you have to remember, when we first start out on this path, there is the excitement of the unknown and all you want is to learn and move forward,for some at whatever cost. So its easy to believe what we are first told if it gets us the results we seek.

Why do so many out there say things like," I envy them for being able to do that"
I`m telling you. If you want it and cant do it.Then all thats stopping you is YOU.It really is nothing more than that placebo I was talking about.I know there will be those that reply to this that are going to strongly disagree and thats fine. Ive not said here that this way is the one way to rule them all, and I know that the most likely to perhaps even trash this way of thinking will be the ones too far stuck in their own beliefs that will more than likely have come from books or people who subscribe to only one method and believe everything put to them.

I could go on and on about why I think the non formative methods are the best. But there is too much to attempt to explain in one post. If anyone is interested in breaking some of the restraints holding them back then I am prepared to offer more of my thoughts, if not, then good luck on what ever path you choose. This site is one that I have stumbled on by chance and what I have said here is not meant to offend anyone here. It was more an attempt to shed a little light.
...........Djjin.
contact me at akapurepressure@gmail.com

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