Hmm, I appreciate your point, and yet I am in two minds. I am leery of hypothetically* calling for any personal perspective to be actively viewed as eccentric and abnormal by the majority of society; I think even the sanest practices and hobbies get that enough without encouraging it, and I don't think a culture of distrusting and sneering at believers is going to encourage more openmindedness and caring in the world. For that matter, I don't think stamp collectors or tabletop RPG players should be looked upon as "strange". I've known too many sensitive "weird" people who were severely wounded by growing up around people who thought their hobbies were meaningless, foolish and unproductive, when in fact they held deep meaning for them, to espouse that point. (And when I say "wounded", I don't mean "wah waah angst" wounded; I mean "these people were sensitive, they couldn't help being born that way, and they came out of it with social phobias and depression that seriously affect the way they live their lives".)

On the other hand, I certainly agree that the culture we have of tolerating superficial religion, unexamined religion, and hatred in the name of religion, ought to stop. I see a simple solution to both of these points, not that it would ever be taken up by the majority of people; a concern for sincerity. A sincere, carefully evaluated belief, hobby or practice that is cherished without violent fanaticism, hatred or other signs of instability should be respected, and indeed valued for the singular joy a deep devotion can bring; I would not have people swear off deep devotion, ecstatic practices, fulfilling and enriching obsession. But people should be heavily encouraged to consider their beliefs carefully, to follow their own personal consciences and observations rather than buying into the Hebrew equivalent of the Thousand and One Nights, and generally to, you know, use their minds. Society would do a lot better for an appreciation of sincerity, and a rejection of flippancy, of casual cruelty, of mockery culture, and of the idea that popularity makes something morally right and minority pursuits are always warped.

*I say that because one can call for it all one likes, and yet I don't believe religion will disappear in the immediate future no matter the circumstances; it has not for several thousand years. Perhaps a utopian future will change that, but I don't see that immediately on the horizon, either; not that I see a bad one. I just see a steady, but slow climb towards increased comfort.

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Hear hear!

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calling for any personal perspective to be actively viewed as eccentric and abnormal by the majority of society

I think I was somewhat unclear. Most people have hobbies, and many of these hobbies (stamp collecting, serious gardening...) are somewhat both uncommon and seriously geeky (in the sense of requiring all manner of eccentric and specialized expertise), but people who pursue them are viewed as no more than (at most) mildly odd, which is pretty much the state I'd like to see for all uncommon hobbies, from BDSM, to playing RPGs, to practicing religion. Serious tolerance of diversity is IMHO necessary in any civilized society.

I say that because one can call for it all one likes, and yet I don't believe religion will disappear in the immediate future no matter the circumstances; it has not for several thousand years.

Given how rapidly it's been fading in most of the first world, I'm guessing religious belief will be very rate indeed in most of the EU (and hopefully elsewhere) in 20-30 years. The rate of decrease is impressive and shows no sign of stopping.

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You have a very interesting, unique perspective. I started reading with a certain sense of resistance, but found myself nodding in agreement more and more as you went along.

I agree with your three reasons that most people are "religious," and I've always thought it sad that something with so much power for positive transformation is reduced to "afterlife insurance" or a required aspect of being considered a fit member of the community.

I'm going to have to come back to this post and think about it for a while.

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I wonder what else those people would be willing to die for? Was it only their religion, or would they be willing to die for family, friends, country, human rights. . . . And what is the root of the willingness to die? A belief in an afterlife and heavenly reward? Or something else?

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That would be useful to know, although I tend to distrust anyone who would die for anything other than perhaps their immediate family or closest friends or mass disasters like nuclear war that would kill millions. I consider being willing to die for any form of ideology to be both sad and deeply sick.

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Call me cynical, but I really, really doubt that 71% of the American population is really willing to die for their religion. They just feel they have to say that in order to be thought of as good members of their religious faith/good people.

We're talking about a country that doesn't have the self-discipline not to spend itself into bankruptcy for that latest consumer crapola. I can't see Americans willing to die by the millions for any ideology.

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I agree, but the fact that they feel they have to say this on a survey is still very troubling, since there's a disturbingly small step between doing that and being willing to perform various idiotic or heinous actions in the name of religion if peers or spiritual authority figures (like fundy preachers) are urging them on.

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I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciated this post, links and all. As a peculiarly mystical sort of atheist, I really could not agree with you more.

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As somebody who thinks that religion is often a useful thing for the individual, but frequently bad for society, I'd see our views as being in agreement. I could add that growing awareness of transhumanist technologies should help reduce religiosity further - in the best case, the human tendency to seek solace in religion gets funnelled to the development of those, as people realize that there are real ways to help fight death. If workable cognitive enhancement technologies actually do develop, those might help too - I don't have any studies to quote off-hand, but I seem to recall that there was a negative correlation between IQ and religion.

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Also - 390 000 people registered as Jedi Knights in the UK study. :D

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That definitely pleased me too.

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I'm not expecting serious longevity therapies for a decade or two, but I expect transhumanist technologies to have a major affect on religiosity well before that - researchers are already well on their way to understanding the mechanics of various altered states of consciousness, including various states of spiritual awareness. Once someone can repeatably induce a classic Zen enlightenment experience, a meeting with a deity, or various similar states with a pill or putting on some sort of magnetic induction headgear, I'm guessing religiosity will plummet. I don't the existence of such tech in any way reducing the spiritual reality of such experiences or (at least from my PoV) the reality of any spiritual beings met in such states, but I'm also certain that the vast majority of people will feel differently. My guess is that when we have this sort of tech, a few fundys will declare it to be evil, more people will beginning talking to deities as a form of entertainment, and in less than a decade actual religious practice will be about as common as stamp collecting.

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Amen... these are some encouraging stats. Makes me want to move to the UK though. =)

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Religion in the US is not practiced, but consumed. The trappings of Christianity that media moguls in the States put on have nothing to do with the ideals which Christianity, being an ideology, espouses and should be encouraging. This is not a new thing and it has it in common with all ideologies. But one should point out that there's a vast difference between someone who professes a faith and one who holds it.


Dead religions for a dead people.

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While I partly agree, books are not a religion and history only records what a religion once was. Ultimately, any religion is what is practiced. Christians in the US may be different from other Christians at other times and in other places, but saying they are not Christians, when they pray to Christ, go to churches, read bibles containing the same books as most other bibles seems fairly disingenuous. You may not like how many Christians in the US practice their faith, I certainly don't but saying they aren't Christian is from my PoV factually incorrect. Also, there are plenty of non-horrific Christians in the US (most Unitarians and many Episcopalians both being obvious examples). However, I do think that any religion imposes bias that has no place in the public sphere or affecting the judgment of anyone who is making decisions for a group of people which includes members with other belief systems.

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