December 7th, 2007
|12:32 am - The irony, it burns, it burns|
On RPG.net there is currently a thread on gender disparity in tabletop role-playing games. I (and a goodly number of others) argue that the primary reason is sexism and misogyny in the gaming community. Some people disagreed. Here's how one person disagreed with one of my comments on this issue, now here he is in the next post disagreeing again (fairly badly this time) that sexism and misogyny isn't a major reason more women don't game, and now immediately following those two posts, here is another post by the same person, doing (unconsiously I'm certain) his best to demonstrate sexism and misogyny among male gamers. I urge you to read it, it's quite impressive. I'm honestly too stunned to formulate a response, and am not certain one is needed.
Update: reading this thread is on some levels a bit like watching somewhat painful slapstick comedy, reading the 7 or 8 posts after the last one I quote is also interesting or perhaps merely grimly informative.
I'm not certain it's always true, but at least on-line evidence suggests that people who argue vehemently that there is little or no prejudice against members of a group they do not belong are largely motivated by bigotry.
Current Mood: amused
Owwww!!! Sounds like the guy thinks that all women are bratty, spoiled five-year-old prisses.
I'm hardly a feminist, as you know from my LJ. However, may I suggest to this gentleman that this attitude is not going to encourage girls to want to be around him?
Shudder. If I lived in the US, it's quite likely that I would never have started to game. Lucky for me, the gaming circles here aren't as insulated and unfriendly to any newcomer.
|Date:||December 7th, 2007 03:02 pm (UTC)|| |
He's just... running around in circles, essentially screaming, "I don't want to think about how sexist I am! I'm not! I'm not! Not sexist! LA LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING TO YOU!"
It... is so freaking typical of these kinds of discussions.
Wow. Mailanka is a sexist, so I think anything he says denying sexism in gaming can be safely ignored.
And, hey! As I read on I discover that he's also racist. There's a big surprise. Why are gamers overwhelmingly white? I can't wait to see the racist explanations put forth on that thread. Oooh, and a gender essentialist (surprise!) as well. But, wait there's more. And more and more.
Cool. He also believes that gender equality has been achieved. A class act all the way 'round. Bravo.
|Date:||December 7th, 2007 06:46 pm (UTC)|| |
I saw the thread and thought of posting, but to be honest, we've discussed that topic to death before.
|Date:||December 7th, 2007 08:37 pm (UTC)|| |
I didn't read the thread, but here are some thoughts...
There's an insular feel to the gaming nights at the local Dream Wizards, which are populated mostly by teen boys. I'm sure they're prejudiced against my kind (older female, reminds them of mom maybe?), but I have to admit, I may have a bit of prejudice going on toward them as well...
I think people often react to each other based on their preconceptions (or possibly upon a few bad experiences), and one person's error may feed into the other person's error and produce a situation where people do not give each other a chance.
The overall atmosphere of a game also may depend upon which game is being played. Some games are more conducive to participation by all genders, and some possibly not so much. Just guessing here, since I'm not a gamer.
The longest-running game I've ever been in has, over the years, had four female players and two male players (three, if you count the guy who only played in the week between Christmas and New Years for a few years). However, I've been the only female in almost every other game I've played (and I'm not even that much of a girl!).
However, I'd say this has more to do with the insularity of the group of people I game with than with any intrinsic sexism. They're not that welcoming to new players, and I think girls are less likely than boys to have been gaming since they were in middle school. I think that with gaming being perceived as "uncool" by the general population, a lot of gamers tend to be somewhat protective, which might come across as unwelcoming.
I don't think I can bear to read that thread. The first few posts and the comments you linked to are just too awful.
|Date:||December 13th, 2007 05:59 am (UTC)|| |
I live in the US, and I've rarely been in a gaming group that was female-less for very long. Obviously, sexism exists. But I would like to state emphatically that I would not consider the US gaming scene hopeless for women or minorities. I've gamed with a nearly all Hispanic group, and I run into plenty of women at gaming stores and used book stores.
It makes me sad to read this:
"If I lived in the US, it's quite likely that I would never have started to game."
and I sincerely doubt that is the case. At least I hope so.